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Suck It Blues

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Suck It Blues

Post by mjfblaze on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:43 pm

Here's my attempt at making a Double Hail team with a slight influence on Trick Room. The biggest threat against a Hail team is the fact that Blizzard never misses and hits both Pokemon, along with the fact that nearly all the big threat Pokemon are hit by Hail and weak to Ice. With Sand Veil and (the most important one on this team) Snow Cloak not banned in VGC so far, people tend to abuse the evasion booster and Brightpowder. However, all is not perfect with Hail teams. They were weak to the big moves in Doubles: Close Combat, Heat Wave, and Rock Slide. However, if you have a keen eye, you can predict these moves and switch into a counter or use Protect and have another Pokemon hit the enemy.



Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk
Quiet nature
~Blizzard
~Giga Drain
~HP Fire
~Protect

This is basically a suicide lead with Abomasnow and to perhaps get a Trick Room up with either Jellicent or Reuniclus. Blizzard is STAB and hits both Pokemon, which is always good. With Doubles and having a 100% chance to hit, there is a 20% that I will freeze one Pokemon, so that's always nifty. I picked Giga Drain over Grass Knot because I prefer survival over power, and I picked HP Fire because of the fact that I'm in a Trick Room team and there's no other Pokemon that uses Fire-type attacks. Protect is to protect against Fake Outs if I lead with Jellicent and to help scout a move and perhaps waste an enemy Gem. I don't predict Abomasnow living long, but hey, with Trick Room and Blizzard, it's going to make a dent before it faints.


Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Magic Guard ability
0 IV Speed
172 HP / 28 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 56 Sp. Def
Quiet nature
~Trick Room
~Psyshock
~Focus Blast
~Protect

Reuniclus is one of my favorite Pokemon that I hardly use in Singles because it's a double-edge sword with my tactics, which is speed. However, when I do use it, I tend to make it deal as much damage as possible before it faints, which is its strategy right here. Trick Room is to set-up for Abomasnow, Mamoswine, and Glaceon to sweep with their low speed. I picked Psyshock over Psychic because of enemy Terrakion, Politoed, and Hitmontop being a threat to this team with Rock Slide, Drizzle, and Close Combat respectfully. Focus Blast is for STAB, and Protect is to scout.


Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Water Absorb ability
0 IV Speed
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk
Quiet nature
~Trick Room
~Water Spout
~Shadow Ball
~Will-O-Wisp

Jellicent is the second Trick Room user, and the reason I added it to this team is the fact that it is resistant to Fire and immune to Fighting, making it a really good candidate for this team. Trick Room is standard, and I picked Water Spout over Scald because of an enemy Politoed coming in and wrecking my strategy. It may or may not work, though, but YOLO. Shadow Ball is to take out enemy anti-Trick Room users like Chandelure, Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Musharna. Will-O-Wisp is there since I didn't add Scald, and it may help against Physical users like Terrakion, Hitmontop, and Tyranitar.


Mamoswine @ Expert Belt
Snow Cloak ability
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Adamant nature
~Earthquake
~Icicle Crash
~Ice Shard
~Protect

Mamoswine at its finest, and I decided not to make it abuse Trick Room because of diversity. Mamoswine at its stage right now could do great in Trick Room and could do good without it. If the opponent knows that I'm using a Trick Room team along with Hail, they could set up a counter, which would devastate me and I wouldn't have a way to go around it since the entire team is built up on it. Earthquake is for STAB and nifty since it hits both of the Pokemon, and Icicle Crash can KO Thundurus any day. Ice Shard is for priority and Protect is to scout.


Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
Intimidate ability
126 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spd
Adamant nature
~Fake Out
~Close Combat
~Feint
~Wide Guard

Like the above reason, Hitmontop doesn't really go hand-in-hand with Trick Room, but it does with Hail. With three priority moves, however, it goes pretty well in Trick Room as a support rather than an offensive. Hitmontop also goes very well with both Reuniclus, Jellicent, and Abomasnow, which are all leads. Fake Out is to deal some damage in the beginning, but Close Combat is where the power really comes. With Fighting Gem, Hitmontop is pretty much guaranteed to KO Pokemon weak to Fighting and deal some major damage to enemies that are neutral to it. Feint over Sucker Punch because some key Pokemon may decide to stall out Trick Room with Protect or Wide Guard, but Feint can destroy the Protect and allow Blizzard to deal damage to it. Wide Guard is to protect your teammates from Water Spout, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Heat Wave.


Glaceon @ BrightPowder
Snow Cloak ability
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 Sp. Def / 3 Speed
248 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 8 Sp. Def
Quiet nature
~Blizzard
~Shadow Ball
~HP Ground
~Protect

Glaceon is a real pain in the ass under Hail, and is even harder to kill with BrightPowder. By using its low Speed and high Sp. Atk, Trick Room allows it to be a huge threat. Blizzard is for STAB, and Shadow Ball can take out Chandelure and Jellicent. HP Ground over Fake Tears because of the fact that Heatran and Metagross are going to be a huge threat to this team. Fake Tears could help against Cresselia and Suicune who resist Blizzard and shrug off Shadow Ball, but I'm going to trust the survival the survival of Abomasnow and Jellicent.

---
Runner-up Pokemon:


  • Scrafty's a great Dark-type Pokemon that could KO Cresselia and replace Hitmontop. However, I already had too many Pokemon weak to Fighting, so I decided to drop him.
  • Conkeldurr is another great Fighting-type Pokemon that adds the much needed power into this team, but Hitmontop goes well with nearly all the other Pokemon, so another drop.
  • Surprisingly, Regice isn't banned, so I initially went with it instead of Glaceon. However, I wanted to try out Snow Cloak + BrightPowder, so I dropped it. I might pick it up again because it's pretty good in Hail with BoltBeam.
  • Lapras has BoltBeam as well, but Jellicent already came into this team, so I didn't want two Water-types. Plus, its stats are meh and there's nothing really great about it.
  • Froslass might replace Glaceon depending on Glaceon's usage, and I could easily just use Snow Cloak Froslass with BrightPowder. Although, it's a bit less powerful and is crippled by Trick Room.
  • Amoongus is a god in the Trick Room league with Spore, Rage Powder, and Giga Drain. I just already had three Pokemon weak to Fire, otherwise, I would've used it. I may use it, but I'd have to replace Mamoswine.
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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by Ghost42 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:51 pm

Disclaimer: I have had no experience in the Doubles Meta-Game, granted my singles experience is also limited.


From what I can see your biggest weaknesses are: Ghost, Flying, Steel and Fire based on:
http://www.marriland.com/tools/team-builder#1112|889|1123|1231|1245|1125|

In addition, other than Hitmontop, your whole team is weak to the Fighting + Ghost combination.

I think you would have trouble with a Magnezone + Tornadus combination, if you have Mamoswine and Hitmontop out at the same time against them, then you'll be able to beat both easily, however they won't be able to switch in safely and everything else won't do much against that combination, particularly if the opponent has Rain up against you (100% accurate Thunder and Hurricane (Magnezone is 4x resistant to Hurricane)).

Granted TR will make Tornadus less of a threat, however this will also make Magnezone "out-slow" the main counters you have for it, unless it's scarfed.

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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by mjfblaze on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:02 pm

To be honest, nothing in this generation resists Fighting + Ghost. Honedge was going to be the first until Steel-type lost their resistance to Ghost and Dark, but Wigglytuff (so far) will be neutral to Fighting and immune to Ghost... but I understand what you're saying, even if nothing resists it, I have little to no counters for it. I don't really fear Tornadus or Magnezone since I haven't encountered Magnezone or Tornadus yet, but Tornadus will be annoying with its Rain Dance, Tailwind, Hurricane, Superpower and other moves that are frustrating to deal with.

Btw, I made this team for a friend, but he hasn't created a team yet with it. Razz
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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by Ghost42 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:36 pm

With the fighting/ghost combination, I don't mean you have no resistances to it, I mean the whole team, other than Hitmontop, takes SE damage from it.

For example, Gengar with Focus Blast, Shadowball, Substitute, Protect or another filler move will do SE damage to five of the team.

Imo, adding some more priority will be a good idea, Mach Punch on Top, and something with Aqua Jet may help.

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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by mjfblaze on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:08 pm

If that's the moveset that Gengar has, then it cannot possibly take out two Pokemon at the same time and could take some really heavy damage from the one it does not strike. Gengar's usual set is Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and Focus Blast or HP Ice. If Abomasnow & Reuniclus lead, it will most likely target Reuniclus because of the obvious Trick Room, thus Abomasnow could get a free hit and it will take two hits to KO Reuniclus. If Mamoswine & Reuniclus lead, then Gengar will still attack Reuniclus, but Mamoswine will attack Gengar with Icicle Crash and then Ice Shard. Same thing happens if Reuniclus is replaced with Jellicent. Since Gengar has to attack only one Pokemon, the other's job is to attack Gengar and hopefully faint it.

Also, I don't consider Glaceon being "weak" to Focus Blast if its accuracy is less than 50% with Snow Cloak and even less with Brightpowder. Plus, these games go by fast, with games usually lasting from 5-20 turns. While Aqua Jet and Mach Punch are good moves for taking out weakened opponents, overall, having more priority moves makes the team weaker because of the fact that the diversity isn't there.

EDIT: After thinking about it for a while, I think you're actually right, Ghost. I may have to switch Feint out for Sucker Punch just to get a little extra hit on Gengar.
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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by Ghost42 on Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:45 pm

How come whenever I use an example to clarify what I mentioned previously people focus on the generic (not important) information instead of the information I'm trying to get across?

What I was trying to point out was that 5 out of the 6 Pokemon in the team are weak to that combination, and it's not uncommon.

Gengar was an example of a common Pokemon that uses the combination, the reason it was used is because it is a common Pokemon in OU, and likely the most common Pokemon with that type combination, not because I thought it was a threat to the team.

A real threat would be Lucario, a special variant would have Aura Sphere and either Shadowball or Dark Pulse (dark and ghost are mostly interchangeable), and a Physical variant can have Crunch and Close Combat.
A few other fighting types have Payback as a second attack.

Something less common would be Togekiss, though since it can use Aura Sphere, Air Slash, and Shadowball which would hit the whole team with SE attacks, though they're not common iirc, are usually scarfed (though you can get someone like me who would use a set like this but with Trick as a fourth move) and you have a check with Mamoswine's Ice Shard.

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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by mjfblaze on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:02 pm

I'm just going to say this: You obviously have not played VGC 2013. Bulky Pokemon > Speedy Pokemon; therefore, Jellicent is going to see more light than Gengar in terms of Ghost-types. If (and this is a huge if) I ever see a Gengar and it destroys me, I'll consider your opinion, but don't assume that Doubles is the same as Singles because it isn't.
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Re: Suck It Blues

Post by Ghost42 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:56 am

I just mentioned I DON'T consider Gengar to be a threat to the team. Gengar was a generic example which can use the Fighting/Ghost combination, and nothing more in my previous statements.

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